You are not that important: finding Joy and doing weird stuff with Hannah Isted.
Leila and Hannah explore the themes of joy, productivity, and marketing strategies. They discuss the importance of celebrating small wins, the awkwardness of creating B-roll content, and the psychological aspects of anticipation and joy. Hannah shares her journey of developing a 10-minute marketing approach, emphasizing the power of timers and gamification in overcoming procrastination. The discussion also touches on the significance of nostalgia in marketing and the impact of seasonality on business strategies. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the importance of finding joy in both personal and professional endeavors.
Hannah Isted is the founder of HI Communications, supporting small business owners with their marketing.
She is the author of The Best 90 Days Ever, an Amazon bestselling book and marketing membership. It shares a quick, daily prompt that shows businesses how to promote what they do in just 10 minutes a day and make it simple, easy and fun.
She has worked with hundreds of small business owners, helping them to increase their online presence through her membership, courses and workshops. In her email newsletter and podcast The Best Marketing Podcast Ever, she shares marketing advice to help product and service businesses get out of their own way and consistently promote themselves.
Find her on Instagram @hicommunications_ or her website www.hicommunications.co.uk.
Transcript
I'm not as slick as Liz or you with your recordings and stuff.
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:Sorry, yes, I was going to, isn't that okay?
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:Yeah, use your video if you need to sort your hair out, make up, anything like that,
lighting.
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:No, gorgeous, you always look amazing.
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:I love your hair right now, it's so nice.
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:It's really nice to be back to more of my natural colour because I've gone blonde after
Covid and then it just kept going blonder and blonder and blonder and I just looked in the
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:mirror one day and I was like, it's too blonde, it's too brown and I looked at the brown
colour so thank you.
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:So I think, so this year, this season of the podcast I'm talking about joy just generally
so it's basically, I kept it as loose as possible
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:because then it just means I could talk about anything with anyone and because that's the
way that the podcast goes.
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:I really wanted to kind of get into the joy of doing short bursts of marketing, your 10
minute marketing.
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:And I could talk about how I thought it'd be really cool to talk about how it shifted my
mindset a little bit doing 10 minute stuff and just getting over myself and how I've found
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:joy with that and et cetera.
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:And we could talk about uh
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:the best 90 days, that kind of thing.
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:And then I just wanted to double check, cause I was looking at your bio, you've rebranded
your podcast, haven't you?
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:Yes.
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:best marketing podcast ever now.
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:I think that is so cool.
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:Let me just write that down.
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:The best marketing podcast.
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:think I know that because I think it's come down.
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:You did a boot camp or something recently, I think.
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:So I've got them stacked up.
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:record today's actually after this.
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:That's on my list.
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:one.
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:I was really good over, we'll talk about that when we come to seasonality, but my seasons
have been weird this year actually.
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:The summer that I thought was going be really difficult was easy.
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:And then now it's really busy because we're back into it.
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:So I'll do a proper intro and then I'll just do like a mini one now and we'll get straight
into it.
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:And it's just a chat.
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:I use about 30 or 40 minutes of chat in it and you can promote whatever you want to
promote.
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:That's the best thing.
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:I've been looking forward to it all week.
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:So it is Isted, isn't it?
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:It's not Isted.
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:It's Isted.
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:And the other thing I just want to check is, do you say HI communications or HI
communications?
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:Yeah.
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:Why?
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:so I'll answer to either.
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:But I mean, I'll answer to is dead to be honest.
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:It is I said, yeah.
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:said right cool excellent welcome Hannah I Istead to the psychologically speaking podcast
it's great to have you here
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:I'm so excited to be here, thank you for having me.
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:Oh, you're welcome.
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:And just for the listeners, we met in real life because I came on one of your, well, I
came on your retreat earlier this year.
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:Do want to tell us a little bit about the retreat and why you decided to do one?
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:Yeah, so I love bringing people together in person.
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:My degree is actually in event management.
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:So that's kind of my background.
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:Yeah.
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:And I love organizing events and things.
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:And I just felt like there was space for something, a retreat that was focused around
marketing, where you could come and spend the time in a really nice environment and crack
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:on with all the marketing stuff you needed to do.
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:And as we spoke about a lot on the retreat,
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:doing b-roll content in like a nice environment where you're actually proud to show it to
someone else afterwards.
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:I just thought that yeah, that's a really nice like space for that.
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:So I did a couple, I did one last year and a couple this year.
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:And then we're actually going back to the venue in December for my husband Tom's mom's
70th.
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:So I've been there like four times this year.
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:I just love the venue so much.
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:You just need to move in and it's just for context, it's a beautiful country house in
Wales with beautiful scenery and the rooms are just amazing.
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:It's like, you know, when you want to do B-roll footage at home and well, I don't know
about your house, but my house, I have to move everything out of the way to make it look
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:half, I don't know, nice, move cushions, as you see like transformers and Pokemon stuff
from the kid everywhere.
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:Literally.
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:You always think I wish someone could like an interior designer could just come and do my
house and make my house look really nice.
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:Well, that is literally what has happened to that venue.
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:So you can just maximise it and get loads of videos.
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:But I think my favourite bit of the retreat was the fact that you bought your van and then
we went for a dip in the morning.
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:That was so fun.
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:It was cool.
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:I brought the camper van and yeah, we went for a cold water dip.
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:I was so out of my comfort zone doing that, but it was such a cool, because it's like an
old little quarry, isn't it?
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:But a quarry space, but it's a pool you can get in, whereas a lot of quarries you just
can't go because they're too deep.
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:But this one was quite, it it felt like it was muddy in the bottom, but we didn't get
muddy feet.
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:It was ever so strange.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And it was May, so.
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:It wasn't hot hot, was it?
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:was cool, but it was lovely.
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:I really enjoyed it.
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:way to start the day.
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:uh
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:I must admit, before I came on the retreat, I think one of the reasons I had signed up
initially was I just never found time, never found time to do social media.
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:And I'm very kind of on and off with it.
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:So in the back of my head was I need to have a bit of a strategy.
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:I knew that I was coming to the end of a contract and I'd be going all in on my research
business and I was pivoting a little bit what I was going to do.
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:So.
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:Obviously I've launched Psych Insights this year and done all sorts of wonderful stuff.
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:And I just thought, God, I could really do just going away with other people and getting a
bit of inspiration and finding the time.
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:But the bit that really surprised me was just, at a post, just noticing how uncomfortable
I probably was with taking B-roll footage.
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:And you must come across this all the time, but I didn't realize just how awkward I felt
about it.
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:And I don't feel like that now, so it's definitely helped, but why do you think people
feel so awkward about doing B-roll?
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:it is unnatural.
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:You know, a lot of this stuff is weird.
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:And I've been talking a bit this week about the fact that, like promoting your business in
10 minutes is weird.
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:It all feels very weird to us because we're used to things taking a long time.
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:And we're used to, you know, doing like, if we create a piece of video content, it would
be a really amazing video.
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:That's what we want to aim for.
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:So just whacking up something of us holding a cup of tea.
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:does feel really strange because it is so quick and so easy and we're in front of the
camera.
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:And I think there's something else around that sometimes people feel there's an arrogance
to it.
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:So, you know, who am I to put up a picture of me having a cup of tea?
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:Why is this important?
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:Why am I, you know, I'm asking for someone's time when they look at my social media
content.
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:So it is on it is unnatural and it is a bit unusual for us.
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:But also I just come at it from the place of, it's not a big deal.
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:It's just no biggie.
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:Like it's just, it just doesn't matter at the end of the day.
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:And actually if people think I'm cringe, then that's absolutely fine because every time I
do a post, I'm probably gonna make money from it.
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:That's what it comes down to at the end of the day.
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:uh
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:I love that and it's so simple, that reframe of, you know, if I'm cringe, I'm cringe, but
this is about making money.
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:It's simple, but that, something just really dropped for me.
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:The penny dropped earlier this year and I was like, I've just got to start doing it and
stop thinking about it.
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:I was overthinking the process of doing social media so much.
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:And it's really interesting because I do all of this research with women around imposter
phenomenon.
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:And it's interesting, I think there are two concepts linked to the reason we feel weird
about it and also the reason we put it off.
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:I think one of the reasons we put it off is because we have that narrative of who am I,
what will people think?
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:And you know, a lot of that's in with stereotypes.
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:But that thing around deservedness.
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:So this idea that we expect that we have to put in a whole load of effort to be able to
get a reward at the end of it.
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:or that you have to spend a long time on something to celebrate it.
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:And over the summer, I sent out an email and I said to people, know, what are you waiting
until Friday to celebrate?
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:Celebrate it tomorrow, know.
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:Friday's a celebration day, let's change that.
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:If you can wake up on a Monday morning and be like, oh wow, I actually have woken up
really excited to get into my business today.
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:That's something to celebrate.
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:Why are you waiting for Friday?
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:And I wonder why we tend to like kind of put stuff off in that way.
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:It's almost like we're self sabotaging ourselves at every single turn.
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:100 % and I think I am an under thinker.
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:And I attract a lot of overthinkers into my world.
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:And that's not even me describing them as overthinkers.
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:That's them self describing themselves as that.
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:And I don't think there's any I don't think either one is better than the other.
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:They both have their places.
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:But if you are noticing that under no, the overthinking is getting in the way the under
think is definitely not getting in the way.
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:If you're noticing that this overthinking is getting in the way of you wanting to do
anything, be anything, celebrate anything, you know, make these moves that you want to
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:make, then you need to do something about it.
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:Like you cannot just carry on going on like that because you won't ever do anything.
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:And I think a lot of people feel really stuck.
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:And actually the thing that is going to help them the most is doing one piece of action.
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:whatever that is, whether that is celebrating on a Tuesday instead of a Friday, it's going
to cause a reaction, something else will happen because of that.
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:And I just think that's like something really important to remember.
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:It's really interesting.
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:We're kind of biologically, I suppose, teed up to anticipate reward because what happens
with us is we don't just get dopamine from the good thing.
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:We get dopamine from anticipating the good thing.
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:So sometimes holding onto the anticipation for a long period of time is looking forward to
stuff.
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:You know, like if you're looking forward to a holiday or you're looking forward to the
70th where you get to go back to this beautiful venue.
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:You know, these things are a good form of anticipation and there's a good amount of
dopamine being released.
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:But it doesn't mean it's the only way to feel joy.
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:And as I've been exploring joy this year, it's been really interesting reading some of the
psychology and theories around it so that we've got this main motivational theory called
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:broadened, the broadened theory of motivation.
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:And it kind of means the more broad your experiences are,
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:the more you enjoy life because you're seeing more things and getting to taste more things
in life if you kind of look at it like that.
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:And I think the interesting thing is that doing smaller things more often with more
frequency gives you multiple hits of the dopamine.
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:So actually saving ourselves for savouring and being tight with ourselves, if you like, on
giving ourselves reward is okay, but...
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:It's probably better to be doing like 10 minutes every day because then at the end of the
week you've got seven opportunities if you're doing it every day, seven opportunities of
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:little moments of joy, whereas you might have ended up with an hour of bit of frustration
because you might have been feeling stressed that you've got to do everything in an hour
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:once a week.
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:maybe, I don't know, rained and you wanted sunshine, so you're putting all of your eggs
into one basket at the end of it, so kind of, psychologically it makes loads of sense I
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:think.
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:Yeah, and I think there's something around, like the noticing the small steps as well,
because actually a lot of people just won't even acknowledge that they are steps.
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:And so we just go out like for the big thing, we want the big reward when actually having
a cup of tea in the garden is a big reward.
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:You know, like for example, me and Tom went and had sausages by the beach yesterday.
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:And we could have thought, actually, no, we won't do that.
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:a proper reward is to go out for dinner or something like that.
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:But actually, that was so nice.
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:And we can do both.
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:We don't have to keep choosing the way in which we we have these little rewards and these
fun things that we do, we have to make them happen for ourselves, though.
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:And yeah, I just think like all those small things, they are the bits that I love to
romanticize.
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:And I look for them.
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:And they keep me going when, you know, not
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:there's not always good stuff happening.
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:think you're so right.
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:I love the idea that, you know, we can just be a little bit more present as well because
there's a lot of criticism of marketing and I suppose influencing.
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:think when people get a bit cringe about things like B-rolls and whatever, it's because we
associate it with, oh, someone's trying to be an influencer.
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:And I suppose some of that has been fairly cringy to look at or experience, but at the end
of the day, they're just people making money.
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:And, you know, it's one.
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:woman to another woman in business, you know, I don't care how you make your money, long
as you're not doing it unethically.
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:you know, if it means you need to go out and get B-roll every day, you just go and do
that.
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:You know, we should be really supporting each other.
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:But I suppose the really interesting thing is that the way that you've kind of set up your
business, I suppose, has been triggered and brought about because of your own personal
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:circumstances around thinking of like, how do I fit stuff in and
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:you know, what's going to work for me and my lifestyle?
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:Do you want to just kind of tell us a little bit about how you ended up in the space of,
right, 10 minute marketing and this is going to be the way forward.
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:Yeah, so I say my if I go all the way back to the beginning, in my second year university,
I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease.
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:And I was unwell for quite a while.
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:And then I basically, well, I was better.
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:And then I left university, I had a couple of jobs after university.
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:And I just really noticed that like the setup was not set up for my illness and my body
and my energy levels and all of that.
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:And
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:I was traveling to Cambridge and it would take, I would be driving two hours each way
sometimes.
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:It just didn't make any sense.
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:And so eventually I left that and I really wanted to set up a business that worked for me,
even if I was going to be ill or even if I was busy or even if I had other stuff going on.
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:And to be honest, it took me six years.
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:I've been doing this 10 years and the best 90 days ever has been running for four years
now.
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:It's taken me six years to find out what I wanted to focus on and kind of niche down to if
you will.
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:But I just noticed that there were so many other people who either had chronic illnesses
like me or everyone is busy.
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:I don't know anyone in my audience who isn't busy like and everyone's target audience is
busy people.
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:We are all busy and actually
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:a lot of this stuff that we were being taught, it didn't fit in with the amount of time
that we seemed to actually have.
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:Like I just don't have two hours to spend on one piece of content when I'm doing podcasts
like this, or I'm doing all my other stuff within my business and trying to keep two dogs
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:alive and you know, like having a home and all of this and you know, I don't even have
children.
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:So add on that extra layer and I just don't
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:think there's enough time for things to be taking that long.
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:So yeah, I just kind of noticed that and I thought, right, how can I do something to make
a difference and actually show people that it can be easy and it can be quick and actually
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:prove to myself as well, that there were things that I could do in this short amount of
time.
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:And so that's what I've been doing for the last four years.
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:I've got my timer here.
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:If anyone's watching on the video, but
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:line as well.
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:yeah!
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:I love that!
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:We use it a lot in our house.
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:I'll tell you what it's used mostly for is for my son when he's doing his homework because
he doesn't like to do his homework.
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:I'll be like, right, we're going to set the timer, 10 minutes, let's get it done.
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:Exactly.
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:And it is that mindset of let's get it done.
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:And yeah, I just I was noticing that people were setting aside two hours for content,
three hours to do this, when actually, if you set aside that amount of time, you are going
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:to fill it with content, and you probably don't need to.
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:So that's what I've been doing over the last four years.
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:And it is one of the things I've noticed this year is that it's changed my mindset.
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:in so many other areas of my business.
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:So I'm noticing where I'm scrolling more and I'm procrastinating.
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:And actually, what are the things that I feel are going to take a long time and they
probably won't, you know, in the end, if I actually do them.
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:And it had that knock on effect into other areas as well.
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:But yeah, I just have this really strong belief now that it can be quick and easy.
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:Even if it's not exactly 10 minutes, you know, we'll allow it to go over a little bit.
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:But it is that belief that
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:if you put these boundaries in for yourself that it will get quicker and better.
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:It's really curious because there's definitely a subset of people who will be a fan of the
way you work who a deadline is really motivational.
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:A deadline works for me.
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:If I have got two hours I can guarantee you it will be the last 10 minutes I'll get the
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:If I'm really focused, I'll sit like yesterday, I had a really focused day, I sat down at
my desk, got my headphones on, husband was working behind me, and I just sat and worked
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:really productively all day.
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:But I can tell you that those days are few and far between for me.
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:They're just like magical unicorn days.
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:Often, I will do 50,000 things other than the thing I'm supposed to do.
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:But then there's something really weird happens when I bring out this little timer that
you gave us on the em retreat.
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:If I set the timer, I'm like, right, I've got to finish it.
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:And I like the challenge.
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:And it's really interesting because you asked me about challenges last time we spoke.
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:So you're fundraising at the moment.
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:Are you still fundraising now?
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah, I'm almost there actually.
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:Yeah, which is crazy.
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:But I have almost at my target.
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:So I'm doing a London Marathon next year for Crohn's and Colitis UK.
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:Yeah, and almost at the target of £2,500.
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:So you were fundraising and you were like, if you want 30 minutes and you want to donate,
we'll get on a quick call.
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:And we were talking about, I was saying, well, in the new year, there's always loads of
stuff comes out about goal setting.
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:I've always shied away from doing anything around New Year's resolutions, but this year
really want to do something.
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:We were talking about that.
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:And you said, do you know what's really interesting is why these TikTok challenges are
really, you know, people, they're really good.
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:People get really behind them.
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:And
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:That time's challenge, you know, how quickly can you do stuff?
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:And in TikTok world is, I think things come and go very quickly, don't they, in terms of
how popular things are in hashtags?
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:So gamification is the thing, isn't it?
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:Anything that we can gamify, if you're struggling with motivation or you're struggling
with perfectionism, gamification from a psychological perspective is the thing that's
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:gonna get you out of that rut and it's gonna get you just doing it quickly and dirty
and...
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:done is better than not done, I suppose.
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:Yeah, it's like last week, did you see my task it was doing?
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:so it's like, it's basically this little basket.
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:it's full of tasks.
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:Yes.
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:But it's got the tasks in it that I am putting off or procrastinating on, or I just don't
feel like I have enough time to do.
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:And actually, someone was talking to me the other day, who is an ADHD coach.
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:And she was talking about novelty.
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:and I thought, okay, because I would usually I do this a lot with the little tasks, but I
would usually just use a bowl.
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:And I was looking at my bowls thinking, I'm not inspired by any of these bowls.
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:So I use this little basket I got the car boot sale.
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:And actually, the novelty of that has worked so well for me over the last couple of weeks,
I've been swapping the scrolling time for a little task in there, I've been getting loads
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:of things done.
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:And yeah, like noticing where I can turn it into a game and something fun has really
helped me and I do think that it does work.
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:It does, totally.
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:there's so much research on just gaming and cyber gaming and all that kind of stuff.
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:if you think about it, you don't have to have an ADHD type brain to benefit from all the
hacks that are used around ADHD.
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:usually with goals we say, you know, make it stretching, but not too hard, not too easy.
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:Set yourself a time limit so that you do it, keep yourself accountable, share it.
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:etc.
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:And that's okay, but a lot of the times that traditional advice really falls flat because
psychologically once we've written it down, our brain goes okay I've started this so it's
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:no longer urgent and also I've started it, it's no longer novel and it takes away a lot of
the initial excitement.
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:So this is why think corporately I've always been
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:I suppose not a fan of sitting and writing down really lengthy goals with people because
sometimes it takes the fun and the enjoyment out of your daily work.
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:But definitely changing anything into a game and doing it with a timer and changing it up
and having different times really helpful.
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:But the other thing, and this is I think what works with you and the way you work is just
the social element of...
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:bringing other people into your goals and tasks.
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:And it's quite interesting because even with your fundraising, you know, your initial
thing is you've made that into such a very social thing, which is like, come for a chat,
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:you know.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah, that's so true.
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:And actually, I was gonna ask you something.
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:So you brought this up just before we speaking, but it's around like the being present.
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:So being present in the moment and being present on social media.
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:I believe that you can be both like I don't think that filming a B-roll or I don't know
recording a moment
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:takes you away from being present in that moment and being present with the people that
you are with socially.
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:But some people do really believe that and they, they do believe that that's one of the
things that holds them back from filming a B-roll or filming anything is that they
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:shouldn't be allowed to do that because it's not being present.
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:But I, I think it is part of it.
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:Like, so when I'm out socially, you know, I've been running these gals who do things
events and we do loads of crafts and board games and things like that.
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:I love filming it because I just think that's also part of the being there.
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:And if I can show other people then it's amazing.
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:And I'm capturing these little moments.
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:But yeah, I'd love to know your thoughts on that.
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:Like, can you be present and film something?
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:you absolutely can.
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:And I think if we roll it right back and say, what do we do when we're social?
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:So we're essentially saying, I think when people talk about, are you present or not
present?
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:They're kind of saying, are you being social with other people or are you just being
introverted and ignoring people around you and the world around you?
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:So if we think about it more broadly like that.
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:then you can start to think about how we behave in other people's company.
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:And one of the things I suppose as humans that we do is we're just wonderful storytellers
and curators and we are also people who document.
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:So even before social media, even before cinematography, know, people were writing down.
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:what happened in my day.
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:mean, if Samuel Pepys and people like that never wrote anything down, we wouldn't know a
whole host of our history.
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:And I wonder, there must have been people who'd like, oh, there he is with his book again,
writing, scribbling, and something in a busy poor book.
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:Maybe, you know, people thought he was being antisocial.
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:So I wonder if just, it's very easy.
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:I think it's a cop out, isn't it?
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:And again, I think this is where we have to take a long, hard look in the mirror and go.
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:Why are we being judgmental?
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:You know, am I being judgmental because actually I find that cringy.
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:I'm really uncomfortable to do that.
330
:I couldn't do that.
331
:And I've got two examples here.
332
:So I bought a little mini microphone recently and I've obviously got really comfortable
with the sound of my own voice because I'm doing a podcast and you know, have my business,
333
:I think four years this year.
334
:So you get used to marketing.
335
:And I was out with my husband and I was trying to get it to work and we'd gone to a really
noisy pub and I'd said, well, let's test it here because we're a really good place to test
336
:the sound.
337
:And I was hoping to use it at a conference the next week.
338
:And he was so shy about me recording him in public where I was like, oh no, I'm just
getting my camera out.
339
:And I was quite happy to look an absolute fool.
340
:I didn't care what anybody looked.
341
:thought about me and actually nobody was really that interested.
342
:were all up in their pints, you they weren't interested in us.
343
:But it did make me realise actually when you're not doing it yourself, then that's when
you're going to think it is unusual.
344
:But when you're doing it, it isn't.
345
:And then at the weekend, because I'd been quite poorly last week and I was behind on quite
a lot of stuff and I'd walked into town with my son, he was going off to a theatre club.
346
:and I'd taken my tripod with me because it's a really nice place.
347
:So I to my little boy, I'm going to take my tripod, I'm going to take some footage, you
know, for B-roll.
348
:And that's what I do now.
349
:like, we're out, I'll try and do it.
350
:And I made it into some fun.
351
:So I gave my son the tripod and he took a photo of me against, you know, like this church
wall or something.
352
:And he thought that was great fun.
353
:I was able to show him how to use the camera.
354
:So, yes.
355
:You could say that it's taking us out of the moment, but you could also say that it's just
become a part of our curation and storytelling and isn't, I would probably say, isn't
356
:talking about our business is just storytelling.
357
:Yeah, and didn't your son like give you a pose or something to try?
358
:I love that!
359
:got a photo of him because I was sat on the steps and I'm quite an awkward person when I
take photos.
360
:I'm not particularly, you know, kind of going to sit there and oh yes, I feel totally
comfortable with my body and I'm just going to do this pose and it's going be perfect.
361
:I'm a bit like, does this look all right?
362
:And he's like, mummy, you just need to sit like this.
363
:And he sat down and straight away got a pose.
364
:I was like, oh my goodness.
365
:He's that YouTube age, you know?
366
:He's a generation that's only grown up with iPhones.
367
:Even as a baby, I was probably letting him watch stuff on my iPhone when he was a baby or
a toddler if we were out, if I was trying to keep him quiet or something.
368
:So he's grown up with it he's just so natural.
369
:But yeah, he's angling for a job as my social media manager, I think.
370
:I think he could be up for it.
371
:But it's that thing of you're all enjoying it then, aren't you?
372
:Like it's fun thing to do.
373
:You're like saving your memories and doing something fun.
374
:I think maybe the shift comes when no one wants to do any type of filming and like it
takes over the moment.
375
:But yeah, I love that.
376
:Like the idea of curating and documenting.
377
:That's so true.
378
:think we, you know, I think it's just something that we're naturally really good at and I
think social media has changed and our cameras have changed phenomenally, haven't they?
379
:How we remember things.
380
:And I'm quite surprised now that when I want to remember something, I usually go straight
to my phone to remember it.
381
:And I've started thinking, God, is that impacting our attention and our memory?
382
:And we think perhaps.
383
:maybe it is but you know there's lots of other stuff going on as well but it is it's
really curious and I think I would always come back to if you are worried that people are
384
:having judgmental thoughts it's because you've had those judgmental thoughts before at
some point but if you've moved on from that that's great because if we can all be a little
385
:bit less judgmental that just makes things easier
386
:Yeah, I love that.
387
:We were talking earlier, so you have the best 90 days ever, which is your main service.
388
:It's almost like a mini community, isn't it, that comes together for 90 days?
389
:Do you want to just tell me a little bit about it?
390
:Yeah, so it's a membership and there's 140 business owners in there at the moment.
391
:And it basically happens every 90 days.
392
:So we do a daily 10 minute marketing task and I, I give you the task every day, we have
weekly themes.
393
:And then every 90 days, it kind of shifts around to another set of 90 day tasks,
basically.
394
:And yeah, it's been going for four years now.
395
:So we're just about to come into the final one of this year.
396
:So the last one is obviously October, November, December.
397
:And yes, also been turned into a book as well.
398
:I I've got a couple of books and I've got the book here as well.
399
:you go.
400
:I've got all the props today, so thanks for and my book.
401
:The book goes with my top today, so obviously I've colour-plodded just for you.
402
:What's really intriguing though, because we were talking very briefly earlier about
seasonality and whether we notice seasonality and it just occurred to me that you've set
403
:up a seasonal business because every 90 days is every quarter, right?
404
:So they're all there about.
405
:So you're literally doing something different every quarter, but it's the same format.
406
:So what are you noticing about people and their, I suppose what they're in a dialogue
telling them about seasons and what they can and they can't do with that business.
407
:Yeah, so yeah, so it does it links up with the quarters and I change the tasks each
quarter, like some of them stay the same.
408
:We always do goal setting.
409
:And we we do do quite different ways of doing that as well.
410
:But we, we always have a few set ones and then I change them depending on what we're going
to be thinking about.
411
:So like the summer season that we just had was very much about quick content prompts.
412
:It was about warming up your audience before August.
413
:You it was about things that I thought people would be thinking about over that period.
414
:And then the Christmas one does change again.
415
:So there's a lot of things around Christmas sales.
416
:And then at the end of the year, we have things like one of the weeks is called wrapping
up the year.
417
:There's like very seasonal things.
418
:Yeah.
419
:So it is seasonal.
420
:And one of the things I've been talking about during this launch is that I think a lot of
business owners don't realize how seasonal their business are.
421
:And I probably felt the same about mine actually before I started the best science days
ever.
422
:Because it's quarterly, one of the things I noticed was, so I'm like a big planner and I
have Trello boards for each of my launches.
423
:So every quarter, there's a new Trello board, I have my Christmas Trello board, I've got
my Valentine's Day Trello board, you know, I've got Trello boards coming out my ears.
424
:And they are very themed, even if I didn't necessarily realize it.
425
:So
426
:As I'm now moving into this period, my content has shifted from the blues of the sea to
more brown colors and things like that.
427
:I'm using like all my autumn pictures, the things I'm talking about are changing.
428
:So I'm now thinking about the last 90 days of the year rather than that mid year kind of
conversation.
429
:And yeah, I don't I don't think a lot of business owners almost recognize that in
themselves because
430
:It's very repeatable, which saves me loads of time every single year.
431
:Like I know what I'm going to say next October.
432
:It will be the same.
433
:I don't need to overcomplicate it and try and like come up with something brand new.
434
:I'm going to talk about something very similar to what I'm talking about now.
435
:So yeah, I just, I would encourage businesses to just have a look at where these themes
come up across the year, what they are and how they can be repeated.
436
:so that you can repeat them next year, because it's gonna save you so much time.
437
:I think it's such good advice.
438
:have a couple of, so I did a sub stack blog years ago and I still write for it.
439
:It's just not a central part of what I'm doing at the moment.
440
:But I know I've got two or three autumn blogs on there and every year without fail, I go
back through them and I pull out maybe one or two lines.
441
:It becomes a bit of inspiration for an email.
442
:There's one on ghosting because obviously.
443
:Halloween and I really love that blog.
444
:I really like the blog and every year the research is updated.
445
:Every year I update the research bit in that blog and release it and say why do people
ghost?
446
:Because you get ghosting in friendships not just in romantic relationships and people are
just generally quite interested and even though as a psychologist who supports business
447
:owners that's not what my business owners are coming to me for, we do get potential
clients who ghost us.
448
:interesting correlations there.
449
:But yeah, it is weird to think that actually we've got a lot of stuff that comes around
loads and loads.
450
:I think there's something about the kind of mindset we're in at different times of the
year as well, especially when the seasons are linked so closely to it.
451
:And your marketing for your business does follow the seasons, certainly with the colours
and stuff.
452
:You make the most of the summer and you were in a dinghy.
453
:Yeah.
454
:summer which was hilarious.
455
:It's so cool and it's just it's kind of an interesting way to do it because then you can
think well you know again you're taking a bit of the pressure out of having to use your
456
:brain to think new stuff all the time and because it's familiar presumably we're less
awkward about doing it again so all win.
457
:if we look at the big brands and the big companies, I always give the example of
Christmas.
458
:Like I get the good housekeeping magazine every year for Christmas.
459
:It's the same every single year and I still buy it and I don't expect it to be different.
460
:I know they're going to tell me who was in Strictly.
461
:They're going to give me a gift guide.
462
:They're going to, you know, tell me how to cook my turkey.
463
:There's going to be Christmas fashion.
464
:Like we don't have to overcomplicate it.
465
:The overall themes of our business.
466
:can stay the same.
467
:then like your example, the details can change.
468
:But if we are spending so much time trying to make Christmas different to other
Christmases, it's exhausting.
469
:Like we just don't need to.
470
:And actually those things are recognisable and familiar for our audience as well.
471
:They are expecting to see that.
472
:And so you can then shift the way that you talk about the turkey, for example, and change
it in that way.
473
:I just I don't think we need to make things so complicated in every area literally every
area of our lives to be honest with you.
474
:You're also doing something else, is really probably unintentional, but really special.
475
:And this is really hooky for your kind of client, which is you're creating when you do
that repeatable thing is you're creating a level of nostalgia and comfort for them.
476
:So your ideal client, whether they have come and done 90 days before, or will do it again
in the future.
477
:I'm sure people do it more than once, et cetera.
478
:You know, it's such a great concept then.
479
:Because it's repeatable, there's that level of comfort that I know what to expect.
480
:I know this is going to happen every 90 days.
481
:I know I've got a chance to take part of it.
482
:But there's also the nostalgia, is, that work for me before it'll work again?
483
:Or I've seen the results that people get.
484
:So it's really clever.
485
:It's really clever.
486
:you know, it's really interesting when you start looking at how people do their businesses
and you break down psychology, why is that working so well?
487
:Why do people get that?
488
:Yeah, it's really interesting.
489
:I love the idea of the nostalgia.
490
:And I think I even notice it in things that people say to me.
491
:So I posted probably maybe like six years ago, a video of me dressed as a pumpkin in my
dog's Halloween costume.
492
:And people still mention that but they also like they've said to me, when are you going to
start your Halloween content?
493
:When are the when are we going to start to see the pot the pumpkins and like
494
:how are the pumpkins in the garden?
495
:And it becomes those things that you are known for as well.
496
:And I think we are, that's why I encourage a lot of business owners to share things that
are outside of their business as well, because it's those connection points with people
497
:that makes people think of us basically.
498
:And it may, you know, it's fun.
499
:Is it not?
500
:It's just fun.
501
:mean, who doesn't love a pumpkin?
502
:And this year, because I am now motivated to do more 10 minute marketing, when we went
around Aldi, oh, and the reason I get the good housekeeping at Christmas is they always
503
:tell you the best 10 mince pies in Aldi, in Marks and Spencer's or wherever.
504
:So I always look forward to that.
505
:But when I was going around Aldi with my son and he was like pointing out the pumpkin, you
know,
506
:like in the middle aisles which is the only reason we go into Aldi I think.
507
:And I usually go, no we don't need to buy that.
508
:I was like no we will buy some and then we've made this like little centrepiece for our
table where we've used some pinecones from our last camping trip and we've got your little
509
:candle actually, I'll talk about that later, we've got your little candle, we've got some
pinecones and we've got some an actual gourd, gourd gold.
510
:My son thinks that joke is hilarious.
511
:That's the only Halloween joke we're having this year.
512
:And so we've created this little focal point.
513
:And I now know it doesn't matter what state my house is in, which is usually a bit of a
shocking state.
514
:If I go and sit in the dining room in front of that table, I've got some Halloween
decoration in the background that doesn't look too bad.
515
:Because usually my flowers are wilting or something.
516
:But this might last longer than a few weeks.
517
:So that was in the back of my head going, I don't usually stage my
518
:but I might just have one thing that I know I can sit in front of or have in the
background and taking some video of it.
519
:Yeah, it's just, it is strange how things have shifted for me since May.
520
:I wouldn't say I am churning out masses of content, but I have done a lot more.
521
:And the really interesting thing, I think I shared this with you is when I look through my
metrics, which I never used to do, the difference in...
522
:like the number of reels, I didn't use to post reels and I've posted reels and I've
actually had followers this year on my Instagram account, which I haven't had for years.
523
:So I think at one point I got, I don't know, I think I got so many followers and I was
like, you know, what's the point?
524
:I'm never going to have thousands and thousands of followers.
525
:So I just kind of gave up.
526
:But then this year, because I've been intentional in what I'm posting, who I'm focusing to
and I've had these messages.
527
:I've had like 150 extra followers, is quite a lot for me.
528
:It's huge.
529
:That's probably a quarter of my current audience on Instagram, which is a place I don't
spend a lot of time actually.
530
:So yeah, it's been really interesting.
531
:LinkedIn was the most surprising for me because I was always a bit like, what shall I
post?
532
:And I've taken so many more selfies than normally would.
533
:I do, it's strange.
534
:It's like...
535
:I think, I wonder if it is because for many, years, LinkedIn was very kind of staid,
professional, a bit stuffy.
536
:And I think secretly people do just want Facebook for business.
537
:So, you know, it's, it's, again, just going back to that curation and socialness, that in
just storytelling, people like that on LinkedIn.
538
:They don't want to be sold to overtly, but they do want to.
539
:to see a little story.
540
:So yeah, I put that picture up that my son took on Sunday and yeah, loads of people
commented on it and said, hi.
541
:And I only put that up because I've been off poorly and thought I've not done any content
for a few weeks.
542
:I'm a bit behind.
543
:I'll just put a selfie up.
544
:And it takes away some of the pressure because you're like, 10 minutes done.
545
:Did you think it?
546
:It's like, well, I'll put something rather than nothing.
547
:you know what, it's not about churning out the content either.
548
:And it's about that curation.
549
:Like, it is about putting things out, looking at them, seeing how they did look at those
metrics and thinking, okay, that felt good for me.
550
:Obviously, my audience seemed to like that as well.
551
:I'm going to do a little bit more of that next time.
552
:So yeah, it's not necessarily about getting out for the sake of it.
553
:Sometimes people do need to do that.
554
:If they are in their own head, I think just whack it out.
555
:I literally we need to stop talking about it now.
556
:You need to just post it.
557
:But yeah, a lot for most business owners is just about making it quicker and knowing that
they can like knowing that they can post in 10 minutes or they can do a very quick post
558
:rather than it becoming this like huge deal then that they need to kind of tackle before
they even get on with it.
559
:think one of the things that I like with this whole 10 minute stuff is if you do put
something out and I've done this I put something out and I'm like oh you know it could
560
:have been better because I've done it once it's so much easier to then just do it and do
it better and the thing is your audience might never have seen it the first time around
561
:anyway so especially over summer I've posted loads of stuff over the summer because I had
lots of spare time because I was at home with my boy over the summer
562
:And well, you know, he wants to do stuff that he doesn't want to do with me anymore.
563
:So I have more time than I thought this summer to do my marketing, which I did.
564
:But I'm happy to, you know, reuse that stuff because I know there are people who literally
took the summer off.
565
:So I'm like, well, they've not heard that.
566
:They've not seen it.
567
:They've not read it.
568
:I'll just post it back out again.
569
:We'll be absolutely fine.
570
:And I'm less worried about that.
571
:that's also why you should do it when you have a small audience as well.
572
:Don't let the small audience be the reason that you aren't posting anything because you've
got like an amazing opportunity now to practice and have a go and like you say, reuse it,
573
:repurpose it.
574
:I always say to people as they're building their email lists, if they send out an email
and you've only got, I don't know, 10 subscribers, then send that email out again next
575
:year.
576
:because I don't like hopefully it will have grown by then and they won't have seen it.
577
:So there's lots of different ways that you can use that content.
578
:think one of the biggest marketing lessons I've learned this year was really unexpected.
579
:And I am somebody who has a small list.
580
:I have a small email list, small following on Instagram, decent-ish following on LinkedIn,
because I've had a big career, so I know a lot of people.
581
:And I'm also in lots of different spaces, so people don't just know me for one thing,
which can be tricky to navigate from a messaging perspective.
582
:But the one thing that has just absolutely blown my socks off this year is how sending
regular and consistent messages to the same people.
583
:My business this year, bearing in mind I put it into dormant for six months and then
reopened it about three months ago, the people who have bought off me are people who have
584
:been on my list for a long time.
585
:And they are people who are not bored of listening to me or seeing my emails clearly.
586
:I went through and anyone who's bought anything off me, like my Psych Insights or done a
coaching session or bought a package, I've been through and checked when they joined my
587
:mailing list and most people joined me two to three years ago.
588
:So it tells me that it takes a long time when you're a psychologist and a coach to build a
relationship with people.
589
:But when you do, they're with you for longer, I think.
590
:and they're consistently opening my emails as well.
591
:So I always thought I need to get hundreds more followers and I've got to increase my
potential leads etc which I still can do and will do but I know it's not the only thing
592
:and and that it really surprised me I think it's been interesting I think obviously I've
got different goals for next year but that was really nice to see.
593
:You probably know that already as a marketer but yeah.
594
:Yeah, I think because the interesting thing is that sometimes well for a lot of them, it's
not the amount of time it's not the fact that it's taken two years or three years.
595
:It's the fact that maybe they needed 30 emails from you.
596
:And if you were sending one email a month, that is going to take three years for them to
buy because they need those 30 emails.
597
:Whereas this launch I've sent a daily email.
598
:So I've
599
:pushed people through those 30 days of emails in one month.
600
:And so if that's what it takes for them to understand what I'm offering and selling, and
daily emails is not for everyone, that's like, that's absolutely fine.
601
:But yeah, sometimes it's just kind of noticing how long people take to understand you to
know what you do to trust you.
602
:And knowing there are ways you can speed up that process, but you might need to produce a
little bit more content and increase that frequency as well.
603
:think the second shocker, and this is such a shocker to you, is that telling people
exactly what they can buy and how they can buy it also worked.
604
:I know.
605
:I would definitely say I fell into the category.
606
:When I first launched my business, I was working mostly with other businesses.
607
:I was B2B.
608
:I was doing consultancy.
609
:My work was mostly...
610
:word of mouth, other police forces, councils, that kind of thing.
611
:uh And so when I was sending out my emails and creating an email list, I didn't really
know why I was talking to these people, what to give them, what to sell them.
612
:And then earlier this year, I've obviously got much clearer on that at your workshop where
I had time to sit and actually think.
613
:I was also sat next to Theresa, so there was absolutely no way I was not going to leave.
614
:without having thought about have I got a sales plan here because she was like osmosis.
615
:She's brilliant, she's such good fun, so down to earth.
616
:But yeah, then just really tightening that up and saying to people, hey, I've got
something and you can buy it and here's how and making that day easy.
617
:And again, it's like really obvious stuff.
618
:It's not, it's not.
619
:I people think that some of this stuff is, and again, I think I've fallen into that trap
of, you know, you've got to work so, so hard and people tell you, it's a slow year,
620
:business is really slow.
621
:And I think these are sometimes very valid things to say, but also excuses because every
business is different and you can't just say as a blanket, everyone's having a bad year.
622
:I don't think everyone's having a bad year.
623
:I think you've got to just kind of keep chipping away at it and keep doing stuff.
624
:Yeah.
625
:it might be that you need to change something, you know, if it's not the same year as you
had the year before, then something needs to be different.
626
:And you need to kind of shift it along.
627
:But yeah, I agree.
628
:And I was talking to someone recently, and they said, how's your year been?
629
:I was like, yeah, it's been a really good year, actually, like, lovely here.
630
:And she was like, it's so refreshing to hear someone say that because she is in like the
physical space, they have a shop and stuff.
631
:And like,
632
:Maybe it has been a tough year for a lot of them.
633
:I can understand that.
634
:And she was like, it's actually really refreshing to know that some people are having a
good year and we can too.
635
:So yeah, it's kind of reframing it and thinking about it that way.
636
:But a lot of this stuff, don't, we think it's obvious once you know it, but then we, I've
always thought that if you have like a corporate, well, just a job basically, before you
637
:become self employed, there is a lot of mindset there around
638
:things are good, if things are good, they have to take a long time.
639
:I have to be in this office from nine to five, whether it takes me half an hour or it
takes me six hours.
640
:So you kind of just learn to structure your work like that.
641
:Whereas when you're self employed, it's allowed to be really quick.
642
:It's allowed to be easy.
643
:You're allowed to as many emails as you like.
644
:It's yeah, it's a different way of thinking and that freedom I think can be quite
frightening.
645
:And so we go back automatically into
646
:format that we learn when we had jobs.
647
:And I know that I do that sometimes I will, I will be almost not anxious, but a bit
jittery that I'm not at my desk for 9am.
648
:I've never been at my desk for 9am.
649
:Like, that's not what I aim for.
650
:But I think I should be there by now.
651
:It's interesting, isn't it, just how these kind of structures dictate our lives.
652
:And it's interesting that all these temporal kind of landmarks that we talk about in terms
of, you you've got your fresh start effects with new weeks, new days, fresh new day, new
653
:start.
654
:I can start again, I can turn over a new leaf, you know.
655
:And then there's the kind of routines that get us going with stuff like...
656
:You know, some people really look forward to like weekly co-working sessions and that's
when they get all their admin done.
657
:And yeah, other people have to be at their desk.
658
:Otherwise they won't get anything done and other people actually probably get more done
when they're not at the desk.
659
:That's probably, I think I have all my good thoughts while I'm cooking actually or in the
garden.
660
:Yeah, totally, totally.
661
:It is really interesting.
662
:think there's so much to be said around.
663
:the psychology of how social we are though and thinking about why we have these kind of
inner kind of scripts that tell us that we shouldn't do stuff when actually if you just
664
:stop thinking judgmentally about your own actions you can just kind of get on with it and
just go yeah well I've done it now so there we go and you know every day is a new day you
665
:can just start again I don't think anyone's ever gonna
666
:go back through your social media and go, on that particular day, I just wouldn't have
posted that.
667
:That was terrible.
668
:don't think anyone's ever done that on my social media.
669
:Exactly.
670
:doing a talk next week and for social media conference, Kumri.
671
:And the first slide of my presentation says you are not that important.
672
:And I sent it to the organizer and she said that was a slap in the face this morning.
673
:But it's a line from a book called Blue Sisters.
674
:And the mum said it to the daughter.
675
:I'm not saying it was nice, but it really made me think that we just are not that
important.
676
:We are not the main character.
677
:in other people's lives.
678
:No one is that worried or upset or concerned about what you're doing.
679
:And if they are, then there's something else that is going on there potentially.
680
:you know, what you're just, it's just not that important.
681
:Like, it just doesn't matter that much.
682
:So do what you need to do, get all that stuff out there.
683
:And just remember that you are not being thought about by other people as much as you
probably think you are.
684
:I love that.
685
:I love that, quote You're not that important.
686
:I think I know the answer to this already, but would you say that you are on balance, a
joyful person?
687
:I think you are.
688
:I think you are.
689
:I think that's what attracted me to kind of coming on your retreat was just this idea of
like, get a bit of joy out of your marketing.
690
:I was like, I'm there.
691
:Because earlier this year, I sat down, I had a shock of a year last year where I nearly
quit my PhD.
692
:I wasn't enjoying the contract I was on.
693
:And I was like, I've got to change things next year.
694
:I've got to do things differently.
695
:So I've had this goal and my annual goal has been joy.
696
:And so that's where the podcast has come through and I've been finding joy in lots of
different, weird and wonderful ways.
697
:And I can now say that I get joy out of filming B1.
698
:Yes!
699
:My work here is done.
700
:Exactly, it's all done.
701
:Hannah.
702
:Yeah, think if you can then if you can find joy from it, then it's going to make it so
much easier.
703
:And if you can't find joy from it, what's the point?
704
:Exactly, exactly.
705
:We have to have fun with our lives and with our work.
706
:Hannah, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast.
707
:I think everyone should go and check out your podcast, which is the best marketing podcast
ever.
708
:I got that right?
709
:Yeah.
710
:Which is just brilliant.
711
:You've also got a book called The Best 90 Days Ever and you're...
712
:oh
713
:90 day service is the same thing isn't it and people can join that's open now isn't it so
people can join up.
714
:Yep, you can generally join up until like the end of the first week of October.
715
:But don't tell anyone I said that because it does start on the first.
716
:I'll have to get this out before the first now.
717
:That's going to motivate me, that gives me my time limit.
718
:Thanks Hannah.
719
:you so much, Having me .
720
:that was so cool.
721
:that was nice!
